Racefan’s Ramblings

Collecting my thoughts, news and inspirations on Tech, Psychology, Motorsport and … well anything!! . . . . . . . . . STILL UNDER DEVELOPMENT IN LIMITED SPARE TIME!

Why not use embryonic cloning?

Posted by Pat Kershaw on November 10, 2006

  I am posting this before my next post to act as a preliminary spat to release a bit of tension!. I totally do not agree with these sort of emotive, unscientific and impractical reoprts. This site, www.cloning . org.au, Is a  fundamentalist religious smear campaign. Take this comment,

       “Doctors and scientists explain…“It is probable that such (adult) stem cell lines as these will render therapeutic cloning irrelevant and impractical ” … Prof Alan Mackay- Sim , Griffith University , Lockhart submission. …
 “There are no cell-based therapies for any disease that would warrant the preparation of human embryonic stem cells by SCNT (‘therapeutic cloning’).” Emeritus Prof TJ Martin FRS, Melbourne University .

But never do they explain how they can replace those opportunities offered by stem cell research! They explain the uses, sort of…

The two important goals of stem cell science are (1) to use ‘patient-specific’ stem cells as direct cell therapy to repair damaged tissue, (2) to use ‘disease-specific’ stem cells as tools for exploring a disease process and testing drugs against that disease.

1. Human cloning is unnecessary for direct ‘cell therapies’, because adult stem cells are already providing the required ‘patient-specific’ stem cells for treatment. Contrary to popular misconception, embryonic stem cells have never been used in any human condition, while adult stem cells are already safely used in over 70 human conditions”….

“Also Professor Alan Trounson of the Australian Stem Cell Center stated in May 2005: “I don’t call it therapeutic cloning because it’s not about cells for therapy. This is about cells that give us an opportunity to discover what causes a disease and whether we can interfere with that.”….

“And the Chief Executive of the Australian Stem Cell Center, Stephen Livesey (Fin Review 10/9/06): “The reason why scientists want to create a nuclear transfer embryo is for the tiny mass of inner cells that are stem cells (which) could then provide a safe and sustainable way of testing, in the laboratory, new drugs and theories on cells that carry the human disease trait.”

Let’s get the science straight: stem cells from cloning are NOT proposed for direct ‘repair kit’ treatments, except by cynical campaigners. Cloning is only seriously proposed as providing ‘research’ tools – a way to obtain “disease-specific” stem cells for drug testing and genetic research of disease.

So far so Good, And then the “hype begins. These are the same types of people who argued against such useless and unproven ideas as space travel, telephones and airplanes… There can be no acknowledgment of the fact that things are discovered by research, it should only be done on things we know about…. I don’t get it.!! any way this is where this mob go off the rails a little, IMHO

    “Cloning for research remains entirely speculative – since nobody in the world has ever made even a single ESC from a cloned human embryo – while Griffith is already using ‘disease-specific’ ASC lines from over 40 patients for research into Parkinson’s, motor neurone disease, epilepsy, schizophrenia etc….

    “Why pursue the fantasy of cloning, when a superior stem-cell research tool is accessible right there under your nose ? Or in your fat or blood or skin?”

    “Muddle: That adult stem cells ‘cannot turn into many different cell types’ like ESCs can. a. Clarification: Contrary to the claims of certain science journalists, adult stem cells have been shown beyond any doubt to be fully ‘ pluripotent ‘ – that is, able to turn into many other cell types, just like embryonic stem cells, only in a more controlled and useful fashion.
    “Muddle: That embryonic stem cells have had great results in Parkinson’s, diabetes, spinal cord injury, heart disease
    “Clarification: ESCs can only do tricks in rats, never treatments in humans, for the reasons noted above. Therefore ESC studies are only ever in animals – and show second-rate results compared to ASC studies in animals. And of course, only ASCs have studies in humans.

    “Muddle: That the great advances in stem cells science we hear about every day involve BOTH embryonic and adult stem cells:
    ” Clarification: this is a trick of the cloning lobby, blurring the reports so that people think ESCs are involved in human treatments when they NEVER HAVE BEEN. See our Blog on ‘Your weekend does of embryonic snake-oil’ ….

But even they concede during this tirade of rear-looking-moral-high-ground (Protecting their investment), that there are successes in rats, but not humans. UMM…. They haven’t been allowed to try on humans have they?

“The animal studies so far have not established proof of concept for stem cell therapies derived from cloned embryos. Lockhart served only to inflate the hype that so frustrates responsible scientists seeking to develop cellular therapies.”

    Well most of the scientific community thinks they have, only not in humans… but I’ve been there.
    The problem is the diversity and ability to have an off the shelf, ready to inject solution is the long end goal. ASC’s are NOT. It means using individual resources for each and every patient, and waiting for cultures to grow and so on. The whole idea of the research is the dream of developing a stored, centrally manufactured and easily administered solution to numerous degenerative diseases, and nerve injuries, to mention just a couple! And to finish I love these quotes from a paper, These are totally unsupported, and some of the issues that research will remedy, one would hope!

“Another reason that embryonic stem cells cannot be used directly is that they form tumours[sic] when transplanted into mature tissues.”
Interview with Dr. Peter Hollands , Chief Science Officer of the UK Cord Blood Bank:…“This means that in cord blood we have … just as much potential as embryonic stem cells but without all of the related objections and technical concerns.”
Prof Jean Pedduzi -Nelson writes from the US on the true shape of stem cell science:… “If one looks at the human clinical trials or research using experimental animals, the record for adult stem cells compared to embryonic stem cells is extremely impressive. In examining only the scientific evidence, one wonders why the controversy even exists.”

Beacuse its not been really done because it’s been illegal, DUH

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